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Greece is fixed! No wait, it’s broken. Oh never mind, it’s fixed.
I feel like I’ve written some variation of those headlines a hundred times over the past five years. Yet for some reason, we remain stuck in this same darn limbo — day in, and day out.
The latest chapter? A marathon 17-hour eurozone summit over the weekend resulted in a humiliating defeat for Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. Faced with an expulsion from the euro currency, the further collapse of his banking system and an imminent default on even more debt payments, he caved and accepted incredibly strict conditions from his European overlords.
Specifically, he agreed to …
Create a pool of 50 billion euros of Greek assets that would gradually be privatized or sold off to pay back creditor loans and recapitalize the country’s crippled banks …
Cut pensions, raise taxes, de-regulate certain protected industries, and enact labor reforms that increase flexibility and make it easier for companies to fire workers …
Put off any talk of possible debt write-downs or payback timetable extensions for the foreseeable future …
International monitoring of the domestic economy by officials from the euro zone and the IMF, who would even have the power to “veto” legislation brought up in Greece’s parliament …
In exchange, Greece will get up to 86 billion euros. That’s about $95 billion in aid, which will be provided as part of a third bailout program lasting three years.
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Can Tsipras (center) persuade his fellow lawmakers to go along with his bailout deal? |
Of course, that’s assuming Tsipras can sell this deal to his own Syriza party members. He has only three days to persuade fellow lawmakers and Greek citizens to take the offer.
Problem is, they’re the very same people who just rejected the less-onerous deal Europe offered a couple of weeks ago in parliament and a nation-wide referendum. Various lawmakers are already expressing outrage. Plus, media reports are characterizing the deal as a complete surrender by Greece … and Tsipras as essentially a beaten dog with no choice but to abandon years of anti-austerity principles and arguments.
So sure, we’ve seen the Dow surge by more than 400 points in just the last couple of trading days. But depending on how Tsipras’ colleagues act, I could be here on Wednesday writing a brand new headline: “Greece Broken … Again!” So don’t get too comfortable yet.
“Don’t get too comfortable yet.” |
But enough from me; tell me what you think. Did Greece get a bad deal, or the deal it deserved all along? Will Tspiras’ fellow lawmakers rebel, or rubber-stamp it? What will that mean for European stocks, bonds, and the euro currency? And finally, do you think the U.S. rally off the latest European news has legs? Here’s the website where you can address all these questions online.
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The markets are throwing a party in the wake of Europe’s latest round of deal-making. But many of you are still concerned about last week’s cyber outages, and what was really behind them. Chinese market turmoil also sparked some comments.
Reader Books said: “A cyber attack is always possible while some creeps have nothing better to do with their time. But just as much, I worry about another attack on our electric power like what happened in 2003. I am not aware that there’s been much improvement on our electrical grid in the Northeast and Midwest parts of the U.S.”
Reader Drex added: “Anyone with a background in software development knows that you don’t make updates to critical systems during your peak usage times. Schedule them for when the markets are shut. If you believe this was a software update, I have a bridge to sell you.
“We have built a house of glass blocks. The Internet is and always has been a place fraught with danger. Yet we just become more and more dependent upon it every day. There is no way the cyber security firms can stay ahead of the hackers. The best they can do is react when a new vulnerability is discovered. Too late folks!”
Reader W.J.C. also shared a pessimistic outlook, saying: “We are extremely vulnerable to a cyber attack that could virtually paralyze our financial system and our military. It’s time to enable our cyber computer systems with manual back up to keep us from becoming a Third World nation should such an attack occur.
“The same applies to our energy grid and to our transportation system, primarily that of aviation. We need to be pro-active and pragmatic. Any person, company, or nation that doesn’t like us can do irreparable harm to us if inclined to do so.”
As for China and the latest swings there, Reader Fred1 said: “It has been said that the Chinese have stopped a lot of people from selling and short selling is not allowed. If all of that is true, their market will continue downward. Markets need free reign to find a bottom during corrections. Artificial restraints only add to the panic and make things worse.”
Reader Chuck B. also sounded a less-than-enthusiastic note: “After the huge drop in China’s markets, a bounce could be expected, maybe even for a few days. But the weakness ‘Ain’t over ’til it’s over,’ as Yogi Berra would say. Look for more declines in Shanghai and Shenzhen after a bit of recovery. Eventually there will be new opportunities in the Middle Kingdom.”
Thanks for weighing in. It’s clear to me that we’re facing the very real threat of multiple “Digital D-Days” in an ongoing cyber war. Even if last week’s shenanigans really turn out to be a series of unfortunate coincidences, plenty of other recent hack attacks were not.
Want to add your two cents to the mix at the Money and Markets website? Then here’s where you can do so.
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China’s markets rallied again overnight, with the benchmark Shanghai Composite gaining more than 2%. That rally followed the largest two-day surge since the tail end of the financial crisis. Everything from government bans on large insider sales to the provision of added liquidity to brokers for the purpose of share purchases appears to be helping stabilize things … temporarily, at least.
You know what I was just thinking we really need? Another Republican candidate for president! And that’s just what we got today, with Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker throwing his hat into the ring.
M&A activity is heating up in the oil patch, just as I forecast it would. The latest deal: MPLX LP (MPLX), a Master Limited Partnership created by Marathon Petroleum (MPC), will buy MarkWest Energy Partners (MWE) for $15.8 billion.
The price of around $79 is a hefty 32% premium to where MWE closed on Friday. The transaction will create the energy industry’s fourth-largest MLP, with a pipeline, processing, and storage network spread throughout the mid-Atlantic and Midwest regions.
Speaking of acquisitions, BorgWarner (BWA) is buying Remy International (REMY) for $1.2 billion in cash and assumed debt. The deal will bulk up BorgWarner’s auto parts and motors business, and the price represented a hefty 44% premium to where REMY closed out last week.
Do you like what Walker has to offer? Are you encouraged by the stabilization in Chinese markets? Any thoughts on all this energy sector M&A? Then let me hear about it at the website.
Until next time,
Mike LarsonÂ
{ 70 comments }
Since the goal of the elite money masters is to pretty much rule Europe (world?) through loans or to own it through confiscation, it would make perfect sense to take the deal right? I mean if I owed someone 10,000 and I couldn’t make my payments it makes perfect sense for me to borrow another 10,000 and tell my creditor that they can just own my children down the road. Us so called free Americans have already done that so why not spread the joy!! Go central banking!!! You guys are great. I hope the Rothschilds and Rockefellers throw a Christmas party this year so I can thank them personally. Wait do they even celebrate Christ? Maybe a Halloween party would be more appropriate.
Not only did TSPRAS lose the hand, he also lost the whole deck! Angela Merkel and boys didn’t do much for themselves either, “what good is a deal this weak, when the patient is going down for the third time”
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The emperor has been naked for some time ,still the child does not speak.
There will be the mother of all collapses at some point but I have no idea
When, the politicians keep kicking the can down the road.
More like kicking a live hand grenade, hoping it blows someone else’s foot off.
Scott Walker? Who he? Another clown for the Republican circus, I guess. I suppose Jeb Bush will eventually come out on top, but Donald Trump, with his appeal to the nation’s bigotry has made things interesting. ‘Trouble is, there is a degree of truth to his position vis-Ã -vis illegal Latino immigrants, and he amplifies it to the housetops to rouse the rabble. ‘Wonder how Bush will respond, not to mention Ted Cruz.
Hey Chuckie; Scott Walker knows a few tricks the butt clowns in the Whitehouse and the Idiot clown Hil will never know…LOL
‘Don’t know much about Walker, I agree about the boobus and boobae americanus. Trump is another boobus, but more clever.
One thing about Trump.
Love him or hate him, everybody’s talking about him. And that’s something nobody else in this race seems to know how to do, get everybody talking about them anywhere near as much. Carly Fiorina has much more substance in what she’s saying, but nobody’s listening to her because they can’t hear her for all the noise about Trump.
When it comes to The Donald, basically it’s a new version of “The Apprentice” . . . except when it comes to political life, he’s never had any kind of public service job, so HE’S the apprentice!
Hi Mike
Today we celebrate a time in France when more than two hundred years ago, the citizens said; enough we have had enough of tyranny and revolted. Now we find that despite a peoples vote in Greece, their government has decided to sell the household silver in order to stay in a system that gives them a free lunch, but sells their country down the river. What has happened in Greece? A country that needs to stand up with some backbone and help the poor and needy YES, but so many others who believe they can sit on their arse in the cart while fewer people are left to pull it, Is this the way of the future?
There are tanks rolling in to take over Greece and some of them can’t even see it. Oh yes they can buy tomorrows lunch, but their kids will have nothing and be working for the ‘Man in Europe’. Maybe this is what they want, or is it?????
GREEKARSE
News gets boring when it becomes a irrelevant circus. For example, everyone is buying Facebook, pushing its price up to $90.00 share. Its earnings are a paltry 1.03/share and it took 3 years of acquisitions and trial and error to get there. Alibaba is a growing company with a global reach, but its stock already peaked at $120 last year. Now its back down to $81/share. Facebook has momentum, while Alibaba and Apple clearly do not.
Another example, just look at Apple. The folks at Moneymorning.com keep writing: ” Apple will be a a Trillion Dollar Company or $200/share stock withing two years, or less”. Right now, Apple is at $125.00/share having peaked already this winter at $134/share, twice. It failed to breakout. China is unstoppable.
What they fail to mention is the markets are very speculative right now and fundamentals of an economy or individual company are not the main attraction. We are exuberant.
Greece is a sideshow. The Greeks voted not to have more ECB and IMF austerity, yet the Greek Government has agreed to ECB and German terms of higher taxes and lower pensions. Reportedly, Capital controls will last six more months, at least. Greece has not proposed any structural reforms so they can not possibly payoff their EXISTING loans. More bailout money and loans just increase Greece’s national debt and does nothing to solve their insolvency problems. Its just putting off the inevitable: A Default. The whole thing is a Greek farce. You can talk about too much debt as logically as possible, but it does not make much of a difference right now.
The Presidential election next year in the United States will be between the best funded candidates, not the one that speaks the loudest ( “The Trump”) or the most Capable ( Gov. Bobby Jindal or Gov. Scott Walker). “Jeb” Bush and Hillary Clinton are by far the best funded and have the backing of their party. So, its really an election like the last ones. Nobody new is getting elected. Again, a farce. At some point, viewers or subscribers just say ” Who Cares”.
Greece today – coming soon to the USA?
China unstoppable? Their ‘vaunted’ communist management team has made a mess of their new stock market. We’ll see if they are indeed, ‘unstoppable’ over the next 12 months. One thing for sure, though, they DO have strong leaders that push forcefully for their national cause, whatever it might be. We have a pantywaist, red diaper, gay bar hopping, bath house flapping snorter that is limper that an old dishrag. All those trips to the golf course ain’t for golf. And Putin and the Reds know it.
IF INDEED the Chinese were the hackers of all the background info on all those GOVT and military employees, maybe they would be kind enough to publish all Obama’s background data that remains hidden
Ah Fred 151,
Humour is the answer when it belies truth.
I am born and raised in Louisiana. Beware of Bobby Jindal. He is in every way a RINO. What he says and what he does are two completely different things. He has done nothing of substance for the people of Louisiana. He has spent most of the last four years out of the State campaigning for the Presidency. Jim
Greece has been playing “Chicken” for way to long while continuing to promise ridiculous lifetime benifits for its people and expecting Germany to pay for it.
To see them cheering in the street at their act of defiance was really sickening.
I was raised to understand there is no Free Lunch!
It has been proven beyond any doubt that Goldman Sacks was the main perpetrator behind the criminal activities of the former corrupt Greek governments, that led to the hiding of the huge Greek debt for more than a decade. This ongoing criminal practice led to the current debt and economic crisis in Greece for which the innocent citizens have to pay a bloody price….losing all authority to the banks as the borrower is a slave to the lender! The Greeks are reliving their trojan horse story…this time as victims because of betrayal and corruption.
Who in their right mind would give money to a debtor to pay back previous loans to essentially the same entity (creditor). There’s an old saying that goes, if you borrow $1,000 from the bank its your problem, if you borrow a few billion its the bank’s problem. The bailout is essentaily shifting funds from one account into the banker’s accounts, all within one organisation, the EU. So who are they looking after …… themslves not the Greeks. If the Greeks exit the Euro zone they loose all the loan money that will never be repaid. The bailout is just fiddling their expense account to get their money back and kick the can down the road for 3 years. Its a ‘screw the Greeks’ deal while they spend billions on funding mass refugee programs for thousands of ‘no hoper’ boat people from Africa and the ME. Didn’t they teach us ‘charity begins at home’.
Lets rather spend money on revitalizing Greek industry. Get them on their feet again. Give them dignity to face the world. The refugees are costing the Greeks plenty but they don’t complain but while they do this their overlords are kicking them below the belt and making them eat humble pie for the gratification of the money mongers.
Adrian
My thoughts exactly on who in their right mind……My fear is that he USA will be high on the list of those NOT in their right mind. Our name might not appear in red, white and blue…..but if you see initials such as IMF…..that also means USA.
And maybe sooner than you think, IMF means PRC.
You’re nuts if you think Greece will do anything other than take whatever bailout is offered
and very shortly thereafter renege on any and all commitments they have made to secure said monies. Look at the record, repeat history, and suffer the consequences AGAIN. Do
you not remember the old adage about the consequences of ignoring history? What angers
me is that you fools are more likely than not to do it again, fully expecting the whole world
to bankroll your incompetence. Hey Eurozone!! You knew it would fail before you accepted
Greece, or you are seriously zoned out on drugs. Advice: Kick Greece out, take responsibility for your actions (YOU pay for the mess YOU created), and move on. An honest and forthright Eurozone would do so. Your true colors will be shown shortly.
In the heat of the moment I used two words (fools, and incompetent), which are uncivil and clearly untrue. Please accept my apology, as there is no excuse for bad manners.
Gentleman Jim
Untrue? I would not go that far
Joan– There are other words I could have used which would have conveyed my true
feelings without having to resort to childish name calling. As an adult, I
should never have allowed myself that luxury of expression. I own it, and
remain polite enough to acknowledge, and not repeat, this type of behavior.
Thank you,Harold, for the compliment. In the same vein, my father told we
kids that profanity is a sure sign of a limited vocabulary. Agree?
Is truth bad manner?s
Hey, guys, Greece is a mere 2% of the EU so who really cares if they go under? The big lenders, of course. It’s highly unlikely Tsipras can sell this much more onerous package to his people. Most important, is the EU going to monitor to Greece to make sure it complies with the terms of the new deal? About as much as the EU will monitor Iran’s nuclear program as our President desperately pursues this disastrous legacy. God help us.
I warned of this, the bankers would foreclose on Greece just as a mortgage lender would foreclose on a homeowner. Now we know what awaits this country if we fail to rein in our debt.
Any suggestions on how we rein in our debt?
Spoils of war go to the dogs of war. Our ability to influence the world that we can stablize our own economy the rest will follow suite. Internal hemoragimg is what is driving our own systems to destruction. The US could be the next Greece if we don’t enact new reforms to our government too.
What is the current dollar value of Greece’s gold? Where is it held? Why no mention to speak of of selling this asset
Hi, the Greeks got exactly what they deserved and all those American euro bashers can now go to bed with some remorse because , the entire continent is taking up their pencils to load up on heaping the blame on the EU .But before get on your high horse just think about how many times the good old USA has set the example and did the same to other countries.
This was a political affair , structured to give Greece a chance to print their own money ( Drachma) and start from scratch ( the best solution ) and never repay a sgl.Euro to the EU. Now , that is a real deal which Greece should do A.S.A.P. , best of luck , you are going to need it!
Let’s not overlook the fact that medicine and related fields are also a huge source of money, to understate. When the mandate to digitalize medical records or face fines came, most people capitulated. A few didn’t. Those who shredded their paper records are now encountering hackers who can not only access everything a person has breathed, ingested or said, but can now even alter them, once accessed, and it is nearl.y ipossible to prove and dispute the variants. Especially in mental health and addictions and AIDS records, some can even be fictitiously created. Once in the “pipeline,” they are shared and passed around–never mind GIGO. If it’s on a computer, it has to be accruate and true. Probably criminal records and “background checks” are just as bad–never mind identity theft and mere money!
We are again and again told by our leaders that if an economy slows it must borrow more money. The Wicksell Effect, a well vetted economic theory, shows that debt is actually slowing our growth see Hoisingtonmgt.com the latest quarterly review.
Even without this more technical and thorough economic insight, graphs etc. we are seeing greater debt and more slowing economies and less full time job creation and less consumption right along with disposable income falling ??
Plus I’m still struggling with more debt being the solution to too much debt.
I sense a rebellion is about to upset the apple cart. Nothing like a bunch of foreigners overriding your government and selling off your assets to cause a general uprising…..
I think Greece’s creditors are throwing good money after bad and they should as well throw out any hope of ever getting any of their money back.
Greece’s problems will not be resolved by taking on more debt but rather by making the economy more productive. For this they should look outside the EU and seek more progressive trade partnerships with the likes of Russia and China.
Russia’s gas and the goods carried by China’s new Silk Road into Europe might be Greece’s saving grace especially if Tsipras can magically position his country to profit from being a friend of both the East and West.
Lending money to Greece has always been like lending money to a drunken sailor. That’s not news to anyone.
Now we refuse to take the haircut we deserve for taking that risk. Our argument for not doing that is “moral hazard”. Welcome to upside-down world! The moral hazard occurred when the euro was introduced and the IMF and ECB provided false safety for lenders. You see moral hazard is not what happens when borrowers-who are expected to default on their loans from time to time-get a way out. Moral hazard is what happens when a third party creates a synthetic safety net under risky propositions.
Of course the greedy bankers that succumbed to moral hazard should take a hit. Of course Spain and Italy will default. Not as a result of Greece defaulting, but as a result of greedy lenders allowing them to have more than they could ever pay back.
And finally a want to shame Germany, the country that received the largest write-off and the largest subsidy in history after WW2, now refusing that salvation to Greece. Unbelievable. By their reasoning that action should have resulted in lots of countries starting world wars. But it didn’t, did it?
He got a very bad deal. Leaving the eurozone , the IMF, and the WTO may be the best thing for Greece and other countries, as well as leaving NATO. He may be able to get assistance from the BRIC countries, Venezuela, Arab countries and elsewhere. With luck, the deal will be rejected and the IMF, eurozone, etc. will get the wake up call they need not to trample on everybody. :
eaving the eurizone and the
I am uncertain regarding any questions revolving around “what next?” The Greek legislature may or may not reject the EU proposal, the Greek people may or may not acquiesce to the immense pressure under which they find themselves, and the EU may or may not change its mind about what terms are deemed acceptable. I am, at long last, finding it wise to stop second-guessing other people.
I am very concerned though about the precedent-setting influence the EU is exerting over Greek sovereignty and democracy. Whether it be for the good or ill of Greece, its electorate’s voice in its own government should not be overturned by an outside entity like the EU / IMF. I’ve encountered one report today that the new proposal would even give the IMF veto power over selected legislation that may be passed in Greece in the future. The potential that this could have for democracy in Greece and other nations has me unsettled.
Greece’s legislature is made up of politicians, just like our Congress. If they overthrow the expressed will of the people, it must be for their own benefit. Just like our Congress.
The monetary system is designed to fail period. No fiat currency will ever hold up. “Give me control of a nations money and I care not who makes it’s laws” – Rothschild Quote.
If one wants to rule over any area on earth all they need is enough money and power to issue the currency and create wars so they can fund both sides of all conflicts (French Revolution, Civil War, WWI, WWII…and eventually WWIII.) If you can’t lend enough just on war alone then you create an environment where each government has to borrow money in order to support the poor and cover liabilities as well. This is all basic stuff if you look at the bigger picture. It all makes sense and really is the only explanation. Lend massive amounts of money to a county so they can cover war and liabilities and when they all begin to default then you create a one government, one currency, one faith system in which everyone has to follow…because they will own you and everything you have purchased with their fake financial system.
Correct! Since Rothschild made his first fortune by double dealing the Dutch and English with money he stole from the Hessians, the European Bankers have made vast fortunes by pitting one country against the other and lending money to both sides to finance their deficit spending. Major wars would not have been possible without the fiat money conjured up by the fractional banking system. The Welfare State would not have been possible. Hundreds of Millions have died to make them incredibly rich. The Rockefellars, Harriman ( Prescott Bush), and Henry Ford made a fortune backing Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini as well as the Allies with the help of their Swiss banker buddies. It is an undeniable fact that the fractional banking system that allows them to create money out of thin air is the worst thing to ever happen to Humanity and may lead to its ultimate demise. Jim
To me, at least, it seems that the U.S. is not far from what has happened to Greece happening to us. God forbid, if the Republicans sweep Congress and the Presidency in 2016, one of the first things they do will give businesses and the wealthy tax cuts. I believe they have already stated this. To pay for this they will, as usual, rather than pay for it themselves, pass the bill onto the poor and lower classes, by cutting Social Security and Medicare. Then what, we will be in Greece’s position? Frankly I do not comprehend why people in the aforementioned classes of people vote for anybody currently serving in Congress or generally the current crop of Presidential candidates. We need new and hopefully honest public servants that will be for ALL the people, not just the elite. God help us.
I don’t pretend to know all the answers but we have been subjected to exclusively Democrat policies since 2006. We have doubled our national debt, seen healthcare costs soar, our world standing has declined, chronic unemployment and underemployment, and Social Security and Medicare are basically broke. All the while business and the wealthy have been hammered by some of the highest taxes in the world and an avalanche of expensive regulations. Do you really think that more Democrat policies are the answer to our problems? That seems like a totally illogical conclusion to me. More if the same isn’t going to fix us. I’m not arguing that Republicans have the answers but we cannot continue in our current course. I haven’t seen our Messiah yet but it is not Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. If we can’t come up with something better we are truly screwed. Jim
Republicans may not be the answer, but if you want to end up like Greece then vote for Hillary
Amen!
The bankers, politicians, and Big Wigs, get the country in debt and the average people pay the price. There is a great book about how austerity doesn’t work called:
Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea, by Mark Blyth. I’d enjoy comments from anyone who’s read the book.
I agree with Todd Selle’s concern for democracy in Greece and anywhere in the world when Trade agreements and central banks are selling the voting public down the drain.
To give the IMF veto power over a country’s legislation is unsettling, as Todd says. The results of the referendum have simply been ignored? There is always the possibility that Greece will not honour any agreement she signs. Maybe this is just a ploy to gain the time required to execute an exit from the euro. The result will be an even greater default, but a lean and competitive Greece. The purpose of the euro is to prevent the peripheral countries (PIIGS) from devaluing their currencies and thus compete with Germany and France. Sooner or later, these countries will wake up and throw of the yoke of the euro.
Money loaned to Greece was not legal, money was given to banksters and technocrats, not to the Greek people. Greece does not have to pay it back. My opinion, is for Greece to declare bankruptcy, leave the Euro. no payments due, It will be a tough couple of years, maybe just as tough under the present austerity measures. Greece will be fine as long as they all work together for a change and stop buying all things German.
The Greek people did receive money passed down to them in the form of social benefits issued by the government in return for their political support.
THE PEOPLE ALREADY VOTED !!!
Governor Scott Walker is a little late to the party, but he is definitely one of the top contenders in my book. All you have to do is consider his strong record of accomplishments in the face of stiff opposition. We need an chief executive that can resist the Washington culture and get things done for the people.
I am I Ben Carson supporter but I doubt his ability to win. Scott Walker could win and has proven executive ability. You may win me over. Jim
Scott Walker has straightened out Wisconsin’s money problems and cleaned up a lot of financial problems. Only one problem. He’s a conservative. Rino’s who control the Republican Party won’t support him. They want someone like Bush or Christie who they can control, just like the last Bush. Hillary WILL NOT BE THE DEMS CANDIDATE. She is not Bill and a poor campaigner, does not like campaigning, and thinks the W H is owed her. I think the Republicans might win the W H; HOWEVER, that is a problem. I think we all know what is going to happen economically in the country (and the world) in the next 4-5 years. A Republican president will be blamed big time and throw this country back to the big government spending democrats. I’m 78 years old. Maybe I won’t be around to see all the carnage. Sure glad my father is not around to see this. He would have a heart attack.
These negotiations were ridiculous. The final deal offered was punishment for Tspiras for his leading Merkel around by the nose for months and for his insults. And maybe for the Greek people also. They should just leave the union and work on their own; might be a final lesson for them.
Scott Walker is the best candidate for President because he has turned around Wisc. from a huge deficit to a surplus, speaks for a conservative agenda and the regular Americans, not the politicians in Washngton. He will be strong on defense and will secure the border first. I like that he speaks common sense that anybody can understand.
+I can see the can in the air headed down the road again. A nice looking can for 95 billion e’s…..
I’m for Grexit. The EU and IMF need to take their losses for the foolish loans they made, and Tsipras needs a grow a couple and lead his country out of debt slavery. When Iceland went through some much needed restructuring, three years later it was doing better than most European countries. The free markets work if anyone would just simply let them!
Greece has been ‘sold down the river’ on terms that every rational economist would reject as blackmail. Untenable for all concerned, undeliverable politically or commercially.
A fair comparison is with the bailouts afforded the ‘banks to big to fail’ in recent years , several trillion dollars between the US and Europe to sustain fat cat bonuses with no question of strengthened regulation or punitive measures as dealt out to Greece.
Sooner or later a return to the drachma and hopefully a reality check for greater Europe.
The EU hardline against Greece is pure BS. The game here is not to assure that Greece can pay back its debts but instead to remake the Greek economy in its image while sending a message to the uppity left-wing parties in Southern Europe of what awaits them if they get out of line. Notice how the emphasis is always on “reforms”. Spain underwent these “reforms” and while the deficit hasn’t improved very much at all, the EU dogs have stopped barking. Step out of line however…Here in Spain, I’m waiting for a left-wing government to take over which will cut military spending and take taxation levels back to where they were in the mid-90s. Then watch the EU dogs come barking with “you’ve got to pay back your debts and reduce your deficit, they way WE tell you to do it”. I’d get out of the Euro while the getting’s good, if only for a little respect for natioal sovereignty.
Mike
The plug should have been pulled on Greece in 2010, the latest action is only prolonging the agony.
It is all a game of charade, illusion and corruption to cover the mistakes of the past
The World system is broke and printing of money is an experiment that has created the illusion.
When the world awakens from its slumber and confidence in fiat money (or should I say worthless paper) evaporates the sand foundation will be washed away.
Those holding hard assets will be wise ones who built their future on rocks!
The deal won’t help even if accepted, because Greece will not live up to its end of the deal any more than they have all the other times in the past. So they are insane on both sides of this deal.
That said they deserve to fail. The Greeks should be smarter than this. They refuse to cut anything and expect it to somehow get better. It won’t until it collapses and resets. So they will keep giving them money until everyone has so much bad debt it can never be resolved.
Does that refuse to cut big government and all the freebies, yet keep expecting it to somehow get better, sound familiar? It should, because we are heading down the same path with the same attitude. We should be smarter than that too, but apparently we aren’t either.
Someone needs to tell all the politicians and voters, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and keep expecting a different result.
Obviously the deal should be unacceptable to the Greek people, but if they accept it, the deal probably just kicks the ball down the road. And of course, the Greeks will do their best to appear to follow the rules but do something different and less painful. One thing they will need to do, but are unlikely to do, is to get Greeks to actually pay their taxes!
Hi, let me post a comment from somebody living in Europe, actually in the next most indebted country in Europe (Italy). Greece has its faults: It treated money collected in the form of taxes and granted in the form of loans as free money for a corrupt political system and for the friends of the politicians. Yet the main fault stands on the “so called” European Union ( it is a dis-union as of last week end). The EU never checked if Greece could meet the supposedly strict Euro Criteria ( neither did it check with a lot of other countries). It eventually “rescued” Greece twice by sinking the county in more debt and creating conditions for a long depression; the EU eventually never checked sufficiently if the conditions imposed when granting more loans were fulfilled, nor had any doubt about the recessionary conditions it forced on to Greece. As of the last few months it became more and more evident that Germany ( and a small group of obedient countries ) have taken over the ruling of the European Union for a couple of reason:
A) Germany needs to keep the Eurozone intact as its industry needs a captive market: Should a country decide to exit the monetary Union, currency would adjust and markets would no more be captive. For your reference Germany does not just sell “hot cars” to other European countries: They sell also such high tech products as milk, butter and cheese ( sales volumes decided in forms of quota by the Brussel’s Burocracy ).
B) Germany is stuck as creditor country: the infra-countries deals are partially handled, via the central banks of each single country, through a sort of clearing system in which the exporting country becomes a creditor and the importing country becomes a debtor.
It is a sort of “Vendor Financing” on a great scale.
So the only option for Germany is to try “whatever it takes” to keep the system together.
Unfortunately in the last few days, looking at the conditions imposed to Greece, we have seen the dawn of the “Fourth Reich”. As the third one is recent and still well stuck in the memory of most Southern European Countries, anyone is starting having doubts at what lies in the future for the European citizens. Cutting a long story short: The best thing we learned from the “Europe vs. Greece” dealings is the risk that the entire Europe becomes a colony of B&B ( Bruxelles and Berlin ). Be assured that not many Europeans are willing to be enthusiast at this perspective.
Why not talk about the “real” winners in this Euro debacle with Greece….Why so much emphasis on Greece. Greece must ultimately decide to comply….Who else is going to lend to another that has “no ” means to pay it back…Would you?
The real winners…the IMF…? Who controls the IMF. ?
When Scott Walker announced yesterday that he was running for president, my only thought was: “Oh my, another crooked politician running for President!” Believe me, I know. I live in Wisconsin and have followed him closely. Already he misrepresents himself…home town…Waukesha? I don’t think so. He went to Delavan-Darien High School (was not a top student..by anyone’s measure). That Delavan is a working class town is apparently just not good enough for this creep. As govenor, he is on his way to destroying our University system and our public schools. His announcement followed immediately upon signing the budget which is a travesty for education. BTW, who do you suppose he is trying to please??
Greece debt? My address is not only for Greek problem but for any country in the world. Politic is a very bad thing. All countries around the world are endebted and pay lot of interests on capital since many years. And, I can tell you that the day you will get a government with very little debt or none will happen in the “week of 4 Thursdays”. Why? No politic party is interested on diminishing drastically the debt of its area because if it makes so, when it will be replaced by a new politic party, that one will restart to grow up the debt using it for keeping on winning élections and governing. Greece has done so. It lied to the others eurozone countries and governed loosely. It pays today for its lack of right. I do not know what the game is going on. All members of eurozone has only kicked the can down the road. Let us suppose, I owe $10 000 to my bank and a $1000 payment is due on Monday. I call on my bank and tell them I do not have money to pay the $1000 and I have to default. 5 days later, I call on my bank again and I ask them for a new loan of $5000. What do you think they will do? they will try to secure the loan by taking over my place for managing my finances because they will want to make sure that I will not default one more time. That means Greek people and country will pay the big price for getting the loan and avoiding defaulting. Something is wrong with that situation. It is very weird for me.
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Banks have done worse to the people of the USA. They induced people take loan for which they were not qualified, then put them on the streets. Look at your own backyard and stop moralizing
Why not just let Putin have it? It might give him such a headache he would forget about the Ukraine !!!